Curse

tear · Aug 26, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

The idea that A.Net/NCSoft wants me to play with others is ludicrous and damned straight wrong! I should be the only one dictating how I should play, unless A.Net/NCSoft find a way so I can choose only players want to play with because of the time, the majority of the players just plan suck!

This game was designed from the start to be played with other people. Maybe you purchased the wrong game. That's like lashing out at Valve for not allowing you to play solo CS and do just as well, and the other players are holding you back.

Cut the bullshit - this has nothing to do with incompetent players. You're in a guild? There are plenty of good people to party with. You're just crying because you like to exploit imbalances in the game, and when things are finally made fair, your advantage is gone.

Quote:

Also, players need to be more mature and stop nagging so much. If you can't be a certain strategy or build, use it! If you are too stubborn to use it, it's your loss and your own fault--don't go crying to A.Net/NCSoft.

But as you say, they should not dictate how I play, and I wish to play one of the five non-monk classes, and do so on an equal playing field, which is perfectly reasonable.

A.Net should be a parent in that they should intervene when imbalances that were not meant to exist are realized.

SOT · Aug 26, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

You obviously missed my elaboration.

Additionally, i shouldn't be "forced" to do team play when i cannot be assured that the people on my team are all contributing. If leader can dump non-performing members ingame, I might be less resistant.

But in most groups that I've been in, there are just way to many incompetent members to make the group enjoyable. In these situations, I'd rather be alone or at least have the ability to dump the non-contributing bloke.

Additionally, if I wished to be constraint by team play only, I'd play any other game.

I picked GW because it started out flexible, but A.Net/NCSoft is bend on a course which I see as more and more inflexible.

Also, they're trying to pander to too many whiners. As I've said, I have no problem for them to jump in when it is absolutely required. But somethings are best left alone and people will find an equilibrium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

It isn't ludicrous. It's reality. Many MANY people do not subscribe to that magazine.

Curious.

Lu Cheng Ying · Aug 26, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tear

This game was designed from the start to be played with other people. Maybe you purchased the wrong game. That's like lashing out at Valve for not allowing you to play solo CS and do just as well, and the other players are holding you back.

Cut the bullshit - this has nothing to do with incompetent players. You're in a guild? There are plenty of good people to party with. You're just crying because you like to exploit imbalances in the game, and when things are finally made fair, your advantage is gone.

But as you say, they should not dictate how I play, and I wish to play one of the five non-monk classes, and do so on an equal playing field, which is perfectly reasonable.

A.Net should be a parent in that they should intervene when imbalances that were not meant to exist are realized.

Guild Wars was never advertised are Team Play only. As a matter of fact, they stressed that you can play as a team or as loner. So your point is moot.

Direct quote: "Not at all. Although there will be many positive aspects of belonging to a guild, there will be so many single-player missions, team cooperative and competitive missions as well as individual player-versus-player missions that you can be assured of many of those gaming sessions that run into the wee hours, no matter your playing style. Missions will come in all sizes and difficulties, and can be joined individually, as part of a one-time team, or as a member of a full-fledged guild."

And I never advacated any position on dictating how you play. Get it right. I'm advacating independence of play!

Learn how to make an argument based on the facts expoused, not making personal attacks or inventing facts.

SOT · Aug 26, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

Guild Wars was never advertised are Team Play only. As a matter of fact, they stressed that you can play as a team or as loner. So your point is moot.

And I never advacated any position on dictating how you play. Get it right. I'm advacating independence of play!

Learn how to make an argument based on the facts expoused, not making personal attacks or inventing facts.

They said the game was designed to play with OTHER PEOPLE, not "it was advertised as team play only".

Ger your argument straight, drink something warm, then try again.

tear · Aug 26, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

Guild Wars was never advertised are Team Play only. As a matter of fact, they stressed that you can play as a team or as loner. So your point is moot.

And I never advacated any position on dictating how you play. Get it right. I'm advacating independence of play!

Learn how to make an argument based on the facts expoused, not making personal attacks or inventing facts.

Yes, play as a loner - with a team of henchmen. If you were meant to play alone, it would not reccommend a party size and caution you before entering a mission with less than that amount. Then again, you can play alone, it's just obviously going to be more difficult as monster difficulty is based on the maximum party size and does not adjust in any way.

What I meant was that A.Net was indirectly dictating play while those imbalances existed. I never said you dictated anything.

jdwoody · Aug 26, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Have you checked the number of districts in LA or Ascalon? Go check!

Can you say "High Water Mark"? I don't know what algorithm anet uses to remove a district once it's created (if they remove any at all), but there is usually alot of empty districts for an area. (Which is a great place to meet if you don't want to wade through a bunch of spam)

ifuwerepbandj · Aug 26, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

i didn't read the whole thread because I am kind of sick of them, but I saw a lot of support for the OP and frankly I think the OP was kinda hypocritical in saying "players need to be more mature and stop nagging so much" in a thread specifically created for the purpose of complaining about protective bond being nerfed. Get over it. The game does not revolve around one skill. Not long ago soo many people were complaining about Anet not being quick enough with its updates and that it was too uninvolved...now they do almost everything we all wanted in one patch and people say they need to leave the game alone. Some people need to deflate their ego about posting that they are leaving the game. If you are leaving this game because you can no longer farm the underworld, none of us are going to cry about it.

Wow that was my firsat ever angry post. Sorry, hypocrisy usually just pisses me off.

Lu Cheng Ying · Aug 26, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifuwerepbandj

i didn't read the whole thread because I am kind of sick of them, but I saw a lot of support for the OP and frankly I think the OP was kinda hypocritical in saying "players need to be more mature and stop nagging so much" in a thread specifically created for the purpose of complaining about protective bond being nerfed. Get over it. The game does not revolve around one skill. Not long ago soo many people were complaining about Anet not being quick enough with its updates and that it was too uninvolved...now they do almost everything we all wanted in one patch and people say they need to leave the game alone. Some people need to deflate their ego about posting that they are leaving the game. If you are leaving this game because you can no longer farm the underworld, none of us are going to cry about it.

Wow that was my firsat ever angry post. Sorry, hypocrisy usually just pisses me off.

But may I remind you that if A.Net/NCSoft is going to make a change, at least they need to think long and hard (or even put the change through a proving ground first). The changes they've made to protective bond renders the skill useless (nearly obsolete) elsewhere.

This is where I have the most problem. A.Net/NCSoft seems to be in a reactive mode and blindedly making changes to placate every complaints that comes up without thorough thinking about the situation to see if the changes are warranted or if the changes are not necessarily affecting other aspects of the game.

IMHO, most changes they've made have more undesirable results. Therefore, I'm advacating that they get off the trigger and do more R&D before making a drastic change.

When a change happens that does more harm or renders a desired situation obsolete, I have real problems. I have made suggestions as how the some changes should be made in other threads, so I won't reiterate here.

Mugon M. Musashi · Aug 26, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

Therefore, I'm advacating that they get off the trigger and do more R&D before making a drastic change

actually, I don't think they have a R&D department
otherwise they woudn't have to do so many updates (there was a beta and it was looooong ago)

you know, this game is like Magic the Gathering "online"
at least with Magic, they make changes to cards or rules only when a new expansion is launched, not everytime some people whine

there should be a warning on the box and on the website : this is a beta game

Aniewiel · Aug 26, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Lest anyone forget: The game is the intellectual and sole property of the company that is developing it. They can make it anything they want it to be whether we, the players, like it or not.

That said, this game was not intended to be played solo. If it were, they would have made a single player, offline version of it along with the online, multiplayer version similar to Neverwinter Nights, Dungeon Siege, Diablo, etc. You are right in the sense that it doesn't say you have to play as a team with other -humans- but it does say that, if you choose not to play with other living breathing organisms, you can "hench up".

stumpy · Aug 26, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Is it just me or do I see a pattern in this thread ...
... people are basing things on assumption. Have you seen the number of districts? lol ... come on give your head a shake ... they had 49+ districts ... which only 6 -7 were being used. Don't use the numbers as evidence. You still cannot get into LA dis 1 85% of the time.

'Guild Wars was never advertised are Team Play only. As a matter of fact, they stressed that you can play as a team or as loner. So your point is moot.'
incorrect ... the was marketed since beta as an mmo with a strong competative atmosphere. They have said in many interviews prior to release that you can travel with other people, or not. This refers to using henchmen as well as travelling alone. Travelling alone does not = farming. I crossed the map alone always, cause I can't stand to sit around, 7 pve characters later.

Lu Cheng Ying, do not speak on behalf of the community. From the responses you have received so far ... it is obvious that you cannot speak on behalf of the community it is your opinion. Keep it in mind for your future posts and people will be less likely to jump down your throat. This will prevent others from attacking you, which ultimately starts from you trying to speak on behalf of people you should not be speaking for. Also you do not have the background nor any recognition in this community, unfortunately, which should also be a key factor in your decision to speak on behalf of me or other individuals in guru.

'And I never advacated any position on dictating how you play. Get it right. I'm advacating independence of play!' ... its advocate and by this line you are saying you never support dictating on others play ... which is true ... you want to advocate to play alone ... which you can.

Poeple have mixed feelings because they never understood the game in the first place ... eventually I hope that the game, andthe community at large ... weens these people out as I see most of the betas are in for the long haul because we actually bought the game based on knowing what the game was about, not on elaborate expectations. The game hasn't veered to fair from Anet's vision ... which is good. They have acknowledged the community, only when needed to keep the game in line with what they vision. Again ... good.

Lets not hijack this thread and keep it back on the OP's topic

Quote:

The nerfing of farming is an issue. The problem is the rarity of gold drops and the fact they often turn out to be utter crap. A gold drop shouldn't be a "Shocking Longbow of Pruning."

Agreed ... drops are funny, but it depends highly on enemies and location. I find it humourous ... though ... when I find a flatbow of pruning ... 'oh boy I can finally take out those aloe seeds

'

Every class still can solo (without henchmen). I have even seen a mesmer solo fire isle ... although it was very unstable. Keep your arguements to pms because imo ... (notice this Lu Cheng Ying, my opinion) ... we care not for hearing about your personal attacks and political forum attacks on eachother.

Lu Cheng Ying · Aug 26, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Lu Cheng Ying, do not speak on behalf of the community. From the responses you have received so far ... it is obvious that you cannot speak on behalf of the community it is your opinion. Keep it in mind for your future posts and people will be less likely to jump down your throat. This will prevent others from attacking you, which ultimately starts from you trying to speak on behalf of people you should not be speaking for. Also you do not have the background nor any recognition in this community, unfortunately, which should also be a key factor in your decision to speak on behalf of me or other individuals in guru.

Please do not invent facts. You wrong to speak for me or invent facts on my behalf. I have never stated that I speak for the community or that I'm an expert or recognized member of the community.

Get your facts straight.

Everyhing I've said so far have been my opinion and my opinion only. I have never spoken on anyone else's behalf or claim to be someone I am not.

You seem to want to impress me, but you've failed through your line of argument. So your post was totally unnecesarry.

As for me, I have every right to continue posting my opinions as this is the avenue which A.Net/NCSoft has directed me. And as an owner of their product, this gives me the right to voice my opinions.

Aniewiel · Aug 26, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

This thread has steered itself off the intended purpose for this forum. It is to be an "idea" or "suggestion" that others can build upon or it can be moved or closed. Either get it back on track or it will be moved/closed.

stumpy · Aug 26, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

The reactive behaviors of A.Net/NCSoft shows they lack insight. This is the primary reason we're having all these issues in the first place.

This is where I was speaking of. Fact! ... Follow the responses and you begin to be attacked.

I do not wish to impress you. I don't care for people who use attacks and finish of their replys with random attacks back at people. Again by saying 'I wish to impress you' you are putting words into my mouth instead of directing your intial topic back on track. As in other replys where you finish with 'I get the last laugh' It is unneccessary.

/edit

spelling errors as well ... heh .. damn my fingers.

aeroclown · Aug 26, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Hmm, I don't see where the op is whineing at all to be entirely honest. What I see is the way that I know many of my friends feel.

Since the release of this game Anet has made number of good and questionably good changes for the betterment of the community. However it is my opinion as well that in recent months Anet has been almost a personal baby sitting service. Not so much in the since of thaking care of those that can't take care of themself but more so in the context of wiping every ones butt when things don't work for them and they become frustrated.

Some of the nerfs that have occures are for the better yes while others are questionable simply becuase the reasons some of us are a breast of are nothing more then trite. A Simple matter of to many people failing to see the logic in find new avenues to defeat other stratgeic advantages across the board. I may simply be reading the ops intention wrong but that is the feeling I get from him as I also get from many people I know.

No One disputes the need for involvement of the game designers what is questionable are some of the changes that occur for what are seemingly the wrong reasons. If its simply a lack of introspect on the situations that cuased this change to occur or a lack of foresight is simply something that remains to be seen.

If This has been discussed further in the post I have not read, I do apologize If not, then I hope this adds some understanding to a possible point of view that may or may not be the ops intention. Anyway you look at it, it would be my opinion. If it lacks clearity then I also apologize, but I doan't really intend to debate it.

/edit

Spelling errors I don't feel like fixing, sorry if they annoy you

kg_lildude1 · Aug 26, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

i like to look at my good friend murphy and his laws at times like these, there are also others' laws included, for example

1. Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse
if a-net didnt update then the above would happen

2. If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something
a-net obviously had this happen to them while developing

3. Mother nature is a bitch.
she sure is -_-

4. Things get worse under pressure.
all you people complaining are putting pressure on devs, dont let above happen

5. In nature, nothing is ever right. Therefore, if everything is going right ... something is wrong.
same as numbah 2

6. It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
hear hear, we hit the jackpot, a-net tried to make game balanced but b/c of above statement it is impossible, someone will always find another way to go around system

7. Nothing is as easy as it looks.
give a-net some credit, b/c i know that its tuff for them to balance things

8. Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.
true to the very end...

9. Every solution breeds new problems.
another jackpot, a-nets solution breeded a bunch of complainers

10. no matter how perfect things are made to appear, Murphy's law will take effect and screw it up.
murphy was correct is more ways than one...

11. You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
pvp? or pve? which to butter, fortunately a-net double-buttered so gj to them

12. It is never in the last place you look. It is in the first place you look, but never discovered on the first attempt.
i'll let a-net interpet that one

13. If you fool around with a thing for very long you will screw it up.
this is a caution to a-net

14. If it jams - force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
thats right, JAM THOSE BALANCED UPDATES IN THERE!

15. Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will use it.
somehow i sense murphy was all knowing

16. There's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over.
another law to a-net

17. When in doubt, mumble. When in trouble, delegate.
i think a-net is going through the mumble stage right now

18. Where patience fails, force prevails.
also corresponds with 14

19. If you want something bad enough, chances are you won't get it.
this is to all you whiners

20. Just when you think things cannot get any worse, they will.
they will soon, in the near future maybe

21. Great ideas are never remembered and dumb statements are never forgotten.
very true on the forums

22. Whatever you want, you can't have, what you can have, you don't want.
another law for the whiners

23. Whatever you want to do, is Not possible, what ever is possible for you to do, you don't want to do it.
yup

24. Any thing that can go wrong, HAS Already Gone Wrong! You just haven't been notified.
also true

25. Everything tastes more or less like chicken.
somehow i had to put this in here because its so true -_-

26. You can do anything except light a paper match on a marshmallow under water
i know a-net is workin hard, and keep on chuggin cuz anything is possible as stated above

27. Those who know the least will always know it the loudest.
translated = idiots often yell, while the smart ones whisper

28. No degree of acceptance can ever change the facts.
Translation: You may come to terms with being screwed, but nevertheless you're still screwed.
how true this is

29. An expert is someone with an opinion and a word processor.
yup to the extreme, becuz its EXTREME weekend!

30. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
this one goes to both a-net and the players

31. If at first you don't succeed destroy all evidence that you ever tried.
heh a handy dandy tip for a-net

32. If all else fails, hit it with a big hammer.
i've tried this one and it works some of the time -_-

33. Everything in life is important, important things are simple, simple things are never easy.
Think about it, complete the circle.

34. It takes forever to learn the rules and once you've learned them they change again.
players should just learn to adapt to what a-net has to offer

35. The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds,
the pessimist fears this is true.
players who like changes = optimist, whiner = pessimist, finish the puzzle ...

36. Anyone who isn't paranoid simply isn't paying attention.
yup

37. If it looks good,
And it taste good,
And it feels good,
There has got to be something wrong some where,
So be careful.
right now the update is in the looks good stage, we will see how much further it progresses

38. Behind every little problem there's a larger problem, waiting for the little problem to get out of the way.
caution to a-net

39. Common Sense Is Not So Common
more truths...

40. Two wrongs don't make a right. It usually takes three or four.
yup

41. The only price you pay for greatness is knowing that it can't last forever.
all you whiners knew this would happen eventually so deal with it

42. Anything that seems right, is putting you into a false sense of security.
for a-net

and last but not least...
If for some reason Murphy's Law fails to operate, it is building up for something big.
the above is so true that i doubt it has ever been wrong

obviously i chose no sides, i had laws for all three groups (players, whiners, a-net) and hope that all three read and might take some of them seriously

Constance_Necrotik · Aug 26, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Lu Cheng Ying's point is not only valid, but well thought out. I have not read a single counter post here that effectively argues it.

That said, what A-Net has done to Protective Bond goes beyond a nerf. They have effectively removed it from play. With double the energy cost, it is no longer a viable skill within any build I can think of. If you see a way to use it now, please let me know!

Deleting it from the game would have had the same effect.

The much better solution to the farming epidemic would be to ban oversea's IP's from the NA servers (and vice versa) and to disallow the movement of gold and non-customized items to or from the international server. This would require a separate storage for the international server. Finally, ensure no equipment could be salvaged outside the realm it was created in, nor upgraded with a component from another realm.

You could go play on the international server with your NA aquired,customized gear, and even aquire new gear there. But it would STAY there. If you tried to leave the international server with international gear, it would automatically be deposited in your international storage. If you did not have enough space to accomodate the gear, you would not be allowed to leave.

Problem SOLVED, everyone happy, no skills removed from the game.

Of course this would probably take extensive coding.... (I'm no programmer so don't know for sure.)

I welcome criticism for this proposed solution. If you can find a flaw, I'd love to correct it... =)

kg_lildude1 · Aug 26, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

you might wanna read 19 and 27 on my list constance

Constance_Necrotik · Aug 26, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Murphy's law's are, for the most part, logically invalid and or irrelevant.

At best they are "fun"

26, 30 and 39 I do like though...

Blkout · Aug 27, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

You obviously missed my elaboration.

Additionally, i shouldn't be "forced" to do team play when i cannot be assured that the people on my team are all contributing. If leader can dump non-performing members ingame, I might be less resistant.

But in most groups that I've been in, there are just way to many incompetent members to make the group enjoyable. In these situations, I'd rather be alone or at least have the ability to dump the non-contributing bloke.

Additionally, if I wished to be constraint by team play only, I'd play any other game.

I picked GW because it started out flexible, but A.Net/NCSoft is bend on a course which I see as more and more inflexible.

Also, they're trying to pander to too many whiners. As I've said, I have no problem for them to jump in when it is absolutely required. But somethings are best left alone and people will find an equilibrium.

Would you like a tissue for your issue?